Macchi M.C.205V Veltro (Greyhound)

Macchi M.C.205V Veltro (Greyhound)

Macchi M.C.205V Veltro (Greyhound)

The Macchi M.C.205V Veltro (Greyhound) was an interim design for a fighter produced by matching the fuselage of the M.C.202 with the Daimler Benz DB 605A engine.

The Macchi M.C.202 Folgore had been a great improvement on the underpowered M.C.200 Saetta, but by 1942 it was becoming increasingly underpowered itself. The Italian aircraft industry had failed to produce its own powerful engines, and so Italy was forced to look to Germany for assistance. The obvious choice of engine was the Daimler Benz DB 605, itself an up-rated version of the DB 601 engine used in the M.C.202.

Two different approaches were taken to getting the DB 605 into service in a frontline fighter. The quickest approach was the one that produced the M.C.205V, and saw the new engine installed in a standard M.C.202. The composite aircraft made its maiden flight on 19 April 1942, by which time it had already been ordered into production. This faith in the new design was justified, for the new aircraft kept most of the manoeuvrability of the M.C.200 and M.C.202 while gaining performance from the new engine.

The second approach was to order the design of a whole series of new aircraft based on the DB 605, the Serie 5 fighters. These aircraft included the Reggiane Re.2005, Fiat G.55 and Macchi C.205N Orione.

The M.C.205V was ordered into production with Macchi and Fiat. None of the Fiat aircraft (Serie II) were ever completed, as the factory was flattened by Allied bombing in December 1942. The Macchi built Serie I aircraft were armed with two 12.7mm machine guns in the nose and two 7.7mm machine guns in the nose, while the Serie III replaced the 7.7mm guns with 20mm cannon.

The DB605 was placed into production in Italy as the Fiat RA 1050 R.C.58 Tifone (Typhoon), but production of the new engine was fairly slow. The M.C.205 made its combat debut in early July 1943, and by the time of the Italian armistice only 66 had reached the Italian Air Force. Of these aircraft six reached the Allies after the armistice, while most of the rest were used by the new Italian Fascist air force in Northern Italy. Production continued in the north of Italy after the Armistice, and eventually 262 M.C.205Vs were completed. The M.C.205V was good enough to be used by the Luftwaffe, equipping a single fighter Gruppe, and was the best Italian fighter aircraft designed during the Second World War to be produced in any numbers.

Engine: Fiat RA 1050 R.C.58 Tifone (Typhoon), licence built DB605A
Power: 1,475hp
Crew: 1
Wing span: 34ft 8.5in
Length: 29ft 0.5in
Height: 9ft 11.5in
Empty Weight: 5,691lb
Maximum take-off Weight: 7,154lb
Max Speed: 399mph at 23,620ft
Service Ceiling: 37,090ft
Range: 646 miles
Armament: Two 12.7mm machine guns in nose; wing guns were two 7.7mm machine guns in Series I, two 20mm cannon in Series II.


Macchi C.205 "Veltro"

The Macchi C.205 (also known as MC.205, "MC" standing for "Macchi Castoldi") Veltro (Italian: Greyhound) was an Italian World War II fighter aircraft built by the Aeronautica Macchi. Along with the Reggiane Re.2005 and Fiat G.55, the Macchi C.205 was one of the three "Serie 5" Italian fighters built around the powerful Daimler-Benz DB 605 engine. The C.205 was a development of the earlier C.202 Folgore. With a top speed of some 400 mph and equipped with a pair of 20 mm cannon as well as 12.7 mm Breda machine guns, the Macchi C.205 Veltro was highly respected by Allied and Luftwaffe pilots alike. Regarded as the best Italian aircraft of World War II, in action it proved to be extremely effective, destroying a large number of Allied bombers and capable of successfully clashing on equal terms with such renowned fighters as the North American P-51D Mustang, a capability which encouraged the Luftwaffe to use a number of these aircraft to equip one Gruppe.

However, while the C.205 was able to match the best Allied opponents in speed and maneuverability, it was introduced late in the conflict. Moreover, due to the poor Italian industrial capability of the time, only a small production run was delivered before the end of the war. Like the Spitfire, the Veltro was tricky (in its construction) and thus slow to build. Italy's highest scoring ace, Adriano Visconti, achieved 11 of his 26 credited victories in the few weeks he was able to fly the Veltro, with the top scoring 205 Sergente Maggiore pilota Luigi Gorrini shooting down 14 enemy aircraft plus six damaged with the C.205.


Macchi M.C.205V Veltro (Greyhound) - History

Italy is one of those countries with a confused wartime history. Early in the war, Italy’s fascist dictator Benito Mussolini sided with Germany and Japan as the third “major” power of the Axis. But in the end Italians fought and died for both Allies and Axis.

Join me for a brief look at a late war Italian fighter.

The best Italian fighter in early 1942 was the Macchi c.202 powered by an Italian produced DB601 engine. When the more powerful DB605 engine was made available to the Italians it was obvious to mount it on the C.202 airframe. This is directly parallel to what the Germans did going from the Bf109F to the Bf109G. The resulting improved aircraft is also directly parallel.

Early C.205 were delivered with two 12.7 mm machine guns in the cowling and one in each wing. But later build examples, as seen here, had 20 mm cannon in the wings.

The Italians also had two other manufacturers use the same engine for improved model fighters. The Re2005 and G55 were actually better than the C.205 at high altitude, but the Veltro (“Greyhound”) was better at medium altitude and down low, and more maneuverable throughout. That excellent handling made it more popular with pilots, and even better liked than its own later model, the C.205N which was more like the other “5 Series” Italian fighters (the C.205N only flew in prototype form). Famous British test pilot Eric Brown flew the Veltro and considered it one of the best fighters of its age it combined the power of a late Bf109 with superb maneuverability… not to mention Italian style…

As it turned out, the Veltro would also be the most widely produced of the late fighters by a wide margin. But this reveals the Achilles heal of Italian aircraft production “widely produced” means 262 aircraft. Italian designs tended to be complicated and largely hand built. They never had mass production like other industrial powers, certainly nothing like the over 33000 Bf109 built.

Italian politics are the most dramatic part of this story. The C.205 had entered service with the Regia Aeronautica and acquitted itself well when the Italian government surrendered in September of 1943. The surrender resulted in a divided Italy the south was occupied by the Allies and re-entered the war as a co-belligerent force. The co-belligerent forces continued to fly both the C.202 and C.205, although allied command carefully used them in operations where they wouldn’t face northern Italian forces.
Meanwhile northern Italy was occupied by the Germans. After Mussolini was rescued from prison the Germans formed a new government around him to run the north. While the new government was forming, the Luftwaffe group charged with defending northern Italy was equipped with the C.205. Their comments on the type are illuminating although admitting the plane flew nicely, they disliked how inefficient servicing was. It took longer to rearm and refuel, and general maintenance was labor intensive. They rarely had close to 50% operational. And the radios were lousy…
So the Germans were happy to reequip with Bf109Gs when the new fascist Italian government had an Air Force (the ANR) that took the C.205 off their hands. The ANR used the type effectively, although always outnumbered and with no chance of altering the outcome. Italian industry was located in the north, so the last 72 C.205 built were delivered to the ANR.

Post-war, the C.205 remained in service with the Italian Air Force for several years and 62 were refurbished for sale to Egypt.

The C.205 and Bf109G used the same engine and had very similar performance.

C.202 on the left. This shows the most obvious difference between the two types the C.205 had about 300 more horsepower (1475). Also notice the difference in colors. This ANR C.205 has been painted in a standard Luftwaffe scheme.

This example is the Hasegawa kit with Aeromaster decals. It represents a plane that flew with the ANR in early 1944.


Production [ edit | edit source ]

At the end of evaluation tests, the C.205 began series production, with a first order of 250 aircraft. The first C.205 left the factory in September 1942. Speed of production was very slow (about 12 machines per month), Η] because of shortage of engines and strategic materials, only in June 1943 did Macchi manage to complete the first batch of 100 fighters. It took until September before production reached 177 examples, of which 146 were delivered to Regia Aeronautica units. ⎖]


Macchi M.C.205V Veltro (Greyhound) - History

73north Comandante di Squadriglia
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Re: Macchi Greyhound 1/48 C 205

Post by 73north » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:11 pm


The wing lights should have been moulded on the clear parts tree with a cut out on the wing tips.
This would have improved this kit since changing it for a more realistic appearance requires cutting the wing tip and a lot of extra effort.
I did it since it is an improvement . This is shown here ( painted underneath to resemble a coloured light bulb ) with Clear Sprue glued into the cut out
( then sanded flush to resemble an actual wing tip position light )
Hasegawa in its current 1/48th scale kit releases has changed its approach for wing tip lights in new releases to now use clear plastic for the wing tip lights.

The next photo shows the influence of the build article on Hyperscale from Werner Scheibling - Radiator struts are now correct and to scale .
Mainly 2 Vertical and one Horizontal ( as per the kind article by Jean Barby , Vince Tassone and Werner Scheibling )


The 20mm Cannon Blisters added to the underside of the Wing - thanks Jean Barby !!

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Re: Macchi Greyhound 1/48 C 205

Post by D520 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:02 pm

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Re: Macchi Greyhound 1/48 C 205

Post by 73north » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:36 pm

Paint added - also started the process of getting ready to flip the aircraft upside down - and lengthen the existing machine gun slot
on the Lower Wing - so its a Veltro Cannon Slot - and add another slot at the side - for the ejection slot for the ejected Cannon Shelll Links .

Plan to add perhaps thin etch across the lower part of the longer slot and create a ' third ' slot with more ease .

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Re: Macchi Greyhound 1/48 C 205

Post by D520 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:07 am

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Re: Macchi Greyhound 1/48 C 205

Post by 73north » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:41 am


Problem Solved
, Sir

4 Holes opened up -2 x etch fitted in largest Slot to create ' third hole ' . - Job Done

D520 Generale di Divisone Aerea
Posts: 340 Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:49 am Location: Ploumoguer

Re: Macchi Greyhound 1/48 C 205

Post by D520 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:51 am

Editor Site Admin
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Re: Macchi Greyhound 1/48 C 205

Post by Editor » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:55 pm

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Re: Macchi Greyhound 1/48 C 205

Post by 73north » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:16 pm

Peddinghaus Decals added - didn't take the chance with using the old 1990's Hasegawa Decals

I used the Hasegawa Paint Instructions as the Peddinghaus Decal Sheet Paint Scheme only shows one side of the Fighter

73north Comandante di Squadriglia
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Re: Macchi Greyhound 1/48 C 205

Post by 73north » Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:40 am

Moskit DB605 exhausts added - which was a lot of bloody work with cutting the exhausts opening lengthwise longer
and to fit the Moskit Exhausts properly , the Fuselage opening had to be trimmed wider as well .
However , only a few parts to add , namely etch gun sights and the Aerial Wiring with Canopy Strut
( incl Number 1 on the Landing Wheel Doors - Peddinghaus don't supply that Decal !! )
Oh and now it has the landing flaps deployed in the down position .

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Re: Macchi Greyhound 1/48 C 205

Post by Editor » Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:12 pm

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Posts: 21 Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:46 am

Re: Macchi Greyhound 1/48 C 205

Post by 73north » Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:32 pm

2 Eduard Etch Gun sights added to nose - and the Number 1 Group Number added to the Wheel Door

Also the Eduard etch Canopy Strut and the 2 Quick-Release Handles - added - with a better view of the Cockpit
The last "extra" I used on the kit are Moskit engine exhausts.
I bought thse last year during the lockdown ( while working non-stop in the NHS in the Operating Theatre doing Anaesthetics )
They cost me £ 20.23 + £ 14.85 Customs Fee plus the Recorded Delivery Shipping fee by Surface ( nothing was going airmaiil )
I also admit they are actually the Moskit Exhausts made for the licence built DB601 originally made for the 1/48 D4Y Judy by Fine Molds .
So they are not strictly DB605 exhausts but look superb .

They might look wonderful, but they required modifying the fuselage sides to accept them.
I widened the engine exhaust opening, thinned the section at the front to make clearance for the pipes and kept adjusting the fit of the pipes until I had them where I wanted them.
I left the lower cowl piece unattached until after I was done painting. That way I could add the exhausts later and not have to mask them while painting the camouflage. The lower cowl fits perfectly, so I was not concerned about attaching it later after it was fully painted and finished.

I will do a review later at the start of the month - but my thoughts are that the HASEGAWA 1/48 MACCHI C.205 VELTRO by Hasegawa
( which was released back in 1994 ) has the problem that in order to cover the whole Folgore / Veltro lineage using as few different moulds as possible, Hasegawa produced a somewhat strange hybrid, which is never completely right when it comes to shape and situation of the various access panels and hatches. The Veltro's retractable tail wheel made a new fuselage mould necessary. The Kit needed 4 reshaped oval access panels for each upper wing
and also 3 cannon / shell case link ejection port plus 2 blisters each lower wing .

The weakest points of the kit are the spartan cockpit interior, the undersized and unusable exhaust stacks and the clumsy undercarriage legs, which are additionally riddled with ejector pin marks.
However - this Kit is nearly perfect in shape and dimensions and shows off some of the finest surface detail you can get with a 1/48 scale .
I was lucky that I spotted that Edaurd had produced the 1/48 C.202 Folgore BRASSIN wheel well set - which fits the C.205 with ease - it made a huge difference to the finished Model - I am very pleased and now have to try to find some 1/48 Diorama accessories like Corn Stalks and the usual green-line grass for a Airfield Base setting !!

09139, 09444, and 09708 build early Macchi C.202 with early stabilizers. 09132 and 09504 build later Macchi C.202 with late stabilizers. 09133, 09178, 09184, 9243, 09271, 09594, and 09754 have late stabilizers and revised cowl, exhausts, and wing cannon to build Macchi C.205.


MC.205

From C.202 to C.205. Through the first two years of its operational life, the C.202 had gone through virtually no modification. From Serie VII on a bullet proof windscreen was fitted, an auxiliary plate of armored glass that could stop a .50 cal round. Later Folgores also had armor plate for the pilot's head and back. The last few Serie had a small supplementary air intake immediately in front of the cockpit and had the venturi tube moved from the aircraft's belly in front of the radiator to position on the aircraft's starboard side. The last group had wing racks for fuel tanks or bombs but these were rarely carried. All but the first several Serie had space in each wing for the mounting of a 7.7mm machine gun, but these were not often actually fitted until late in the production run. Even after Folgores were delivered with the 7.7mm guns in place, they were rarely, if ever, armed because they were utterly ineffective against the large American bombers or well-protected fighters that were being encountered in 1943. One C.202, MM.7768, was tested with chin radiators, and named C.202D, but wasn't particularly successful. Another, MM.91974, was tested with 20mm Mauser gun pods, similar to those used on Luftwaffe Bf109s. The Italians, however, weren't willing to accept the degradation of performance as the Germans were, and the gun pods never were used operationally.

By late 1942, the C.202 was facing far superior opposition and the search for improved performance became critical. The DB601, from which its engine was derived, was already out of production in Germany. Plans for the Germans to overhaul worn Italian engines fell through. Production of the RA 1000 by Alfa-Romeo never exceeded 50 units per month, which had to be shared with Reggiane. This meant that airframes often had to wait for engines, forcing Macchi to keep the C.200 in production well into 1943.


Classic Italian fighters – the Macchi MC.205 Veltro & Orione

From its very beginning as an individual type of warplane in 1915, the fighter has been measured in terms not just of its firepower but also of its overall performance and its combination of manoeuvrability and crispness of handling. The two key factors in the steady evolution of the fighter before the advent of effective lightweight radar and guided missiles in the period following World War II have thus been the airframe and powerplant, the former in terms of its aerodynamic cleanliness and strength/weight ratio, and the latter in terms of its outright power, fuel consumption and power/weight ratio. In World War I, the fighter was characterised by a light airframe generally of fabric-covered and wire-braced wooden construction and a medium-power engine of the air-cooled rotary or water-cooled inline or V types, and this tendency continued through most of the 1920s with wood replaced by metal as the primary structural medium and the rotary engine replaced by the air-cooled radial engine.

Then in the 1930s there occurred one of those conceptual leaps that marked a total shift in the nature of the fighter as the fabric-covered metal biplane with its fixed landing gear and open cockpit was supplanted in a remarkably short period by the ‘modern’ monoplane with metal construction under a metal skin that carried some of the loads, retractable main landing gear units, enclosed cockpit and a number of other advanced features such as trailing-edge flaps and variable-pitch propellers. There was limited resistance to this change in some countries, such as Italy, Japan and the USSR, which all saw a continued place for the biplane as an air combat fighter offering aerial agility greater than that of any monoplane, but by the middle of the decade all three of these countries had come to appreciate the inevitability of the monoplane’s superiority, even if only in a hybrid form with the lighter weight accruing from the retention of fixed but nicely faired main landing gear units and an open pilot’s cockpit.

As the new generation of monoplane fighters was making its appearance, moreover, a combination of developments in metallurgy, fuel technology, cooling by ethylene glycol rather than water, and the designer’s art had paved the way for a new generation of V-type piston engines offering considerably greater power than their predecessors with comparatively little increase in cross section and power/weight ratio. Combined with the monoplane airframe, the new type of powerplant rapidly pushed the fighter’s maximum speed from something in the order of 175 kt (202 mph 324 km/h) for current biplanes to 300 kt (350 mph 563 km/h) or more in the new monoplanes.

Italy left behind
Thus the development of the monoplane airframe and liquid-cooled engine went hand-in-hand in countries such as France, the UK, the USA and USSR, which all had air planners and designers who appreciated that the combination offered the true way forward. Other countries, such as Italy and Japan, placed greater emphasis on the air-cooled radial engine that always offered a higher power/weight ratio than it liquid-cooled counterpart and was therefore thought superior for the air combat fighter of the type that would prevail over any heavier and slightly faster opponent with a liquid-cooled engine as a result of its greater agility.

This assessment seemed to be borne out by the experience of the Italians and the Japanese in the Spanish Civil War (1936/39) and Siberian border clashes (1938/39) respectively, when fighters such as the Fiat CR.32 biplane and Nakajima Ki-27 light monoplane, each with fixed landing gear and an open cockpit, performed with considerable success. Further assessment of these conflicts then persuaded the air commanders and designers of both these countries that there was scope for light monoplane fighters with retractable main landing gear units, a cockpit enclosure (heartily disliked by most pilots and often removed), and a high-powered radial piston engine to create a dogfighting monoplane bridging the tactical gap between the biplane fighter and the heavier monoplane fighter with a liquid-cooled engine.

In Italy, the decision to move ahead with the development of such fighters led to the Fiat G.50 Freccia and Macchi MC.200 Saetta, which were good examples of their particular type of fighter but, as events were soon to prove in World War II, were wholly outmatched by heavier monoplane fighters with a high-powered engine of the liquid-cooled type for heavier firepower, a sturdier airframe better able to absorb combat damage or shrug off some of its possibility through the incorporation of armour protection and self-sealing fuel tanks, and better overall performance. This last was most important in factors such as the heavier fighters’ higher speed, superior climb rate and greater acceleration in the dive, all of which allowed the pilots of heavier fighters to accept and/or break off combat except in the situation in which he had tactical advantages over the pilot of the lighter and this notionally more agile fighter.

Highly talented designers such as Macchi’s Ing. Mario Castoldi had therefore found themselves at a disadvantage when drawing up Italy’s first generation of all-metal stressed-skin cantilever low-wing monoplane fighters. Castoldi’s first such fighter was the MC.200 Saetta, which was a very nicely conceived and sturdy fighter that combined viceless handling characteristics and excellent control responsiveness with nicely harmonised and finger-light controls, and outstanding climb-and-dive performance with great stability as a gun platform. On the other side of the coin, however, the fighter possessed only an indifferent level flight performance as a result of its combination of a bulky and drag-producing radial engine installation with a humped and therefore aerodynamically less-than-ideal fuselage shaping, the former because of the lack of any suitable liquid-cooled engine and the latter a a result of the official requirement’s over-emphasis on fields of vision for the pilot. Moreover, in an attempt to keep down weights as a means of boosting performance with a comparatively low-powered engine, the fighter had only the most modest of fixed armaments. By comparison with contemporary British and German fighters, therefore, the MC.200 Saetta was virtually obsolete even as it entered service, as the Italian authorities themselves had belatedly realised by 1940. It was now abundantly clear that the fighter with a medium-power radial engine was, despite its comparatively recent arrival in service, inferior to fighters such as the Supermarine Spitfire, which was powered by the superlative Rolls-Royce Merlin liquid-cooled V-12 engine, and the Messerschmitt Bf 109, which was powered by the equally great Daimler-Benz DB 601 liquid-cooled inverted V-12 engine. The problem faced by Italy was that it was now impossible to recover the time and development momentum lost after the country had forsaken the development of high-powered liquid-cooled engines to concentrate their efforts on air-cooled radial engines.

German powerplant
Castoldi had appreciated this fact by 1939, however, having made a private approach to Daimler-Benz and, with the Macchi’s backing, had arranged for the import of one example of the DB 601Aa engine. At the same time Castoldi had started work on the redesign of the basic MC.200 airframe to accept the German engine, thus starting a process that finally led to the superb MC.205V Veltro (greyhound). Although intended only as an interim type in which an existing airframe was combined with a higher-powered engine to create a capable low- to medium-altitude fighter and thereby buy the time needed for the development of a more advanced type, the MC.205V was in fact the last Castoldi design of World War II to attain service status. Despite its hybrid design and limited production, the type restored the Italian reputation for the design of world-class fighters.

That others were coming to the same realisation as Castoldi and Macchi was reflected in the fact that full approval for the import of the DB 601Aa engine was not only immediately accorded by Generale Francesco Pricolo, chief of the Italian air staff, but also that the order was increased to four engines and negotiations were started for licensed manufacture of the engine in Italy. Only some six months after its receipt of the first two DB 601Aa engines, Macchi flew the first example of its MC.202 Folgore (thunderbolt) development of the MC.200 Saetta in August 1940, and the type soon entered production as one of the most capable fighters available to the Italian air force in the middle part of World War II as it combined all the virtues of the radial-engined MC.200 with excellent level-flight performance.

The licence to make the DB 601 engine in Italy had been assigned to Alfa Romeo, and while this company’s plant at Pomigliano d’Arco near Naples was prepared for production of the DB 601Aa as the RA.1000 Monsone (monsoon), Italy bought 400 examples of the DB 601Aa from Germany to allow the rapid introduction of the MC.202 into production and service. This allowed deliveries to be made from July 1941, only some 11 months after the prototype’s first flight. Even so, such was the pace of fighter development at this stage of World War II that it soon became clear that the MC.202, although in every respect superior to the MC.200, was not superior to the latest British fighters encountered over North Africa and the Mediterranean, and would therefore need replacement in the near future.

The same but not the same
The engine for any such improved fighter was to be the DB 605A-1 development of the DB 601, for which Italy had gained a licensed manufacturing agreement in the spring of 1941: the Italian-built version of this engine was to become the Alfa Romeo RA.1050 Tifone (typhoon), and the specification for the new generation of Italian fighter was based on the use of this engine. Castoldi responded to the requirement nature with the MC.205 design that combined the central and rear fuselage sections, tail unit and landing gear of the MC.202 with a new wing (featuring increased span and area) and a new forward fuselage carrying the more powerful engine. The Italian air ministry appreciated that this concept offered considerable potential, but also feared that the need to design the new wing and forward fuselage, then prove the new combination in flight, and then place the revised aeroplane in production would require the time which the Italian air force’s fighter squadrons did not have. The air ministry therefore agreed to a Macchi proposal for an interim development of the MC.202 with the same wing and armament but with the RA.1050 Tifone engine as the MC.202bis, which could be placed in production and service with the minimum possible delay.

So great was the promise of the interim type, indeed, that the authorities contracted in December 1941 for an initial 100 out of a planned 600 aircraft of this type.

Daimler-Benz delivered the first two DB 605A engines to Italy in February 1942, and these were sent straight to Macchi for use in the MC.202bis programme, whose first prototype was a converted MC.202 that recorded its maiden flight as early as 19 April 1942. Among the external features differentiating the MC.202bis from the MC.200 were the later type’s split oil coolers under the forward fuselage, larger spinner, and retractable tailwheel.

Definitive variant
Soon after this the air ministry decided that the improved capabilities of the planned new fighter should be signalled in a new designation, and the MC.202bis therefore became the MC.205V, the terminal number ‘5’ being used for all the fighters powered by the RA.1050 Tifone engine: these were thus the Fiat G.55 Centauro, the Reggiane Re.2005 Sagittario, and the two versions of the MC.205 as the MC.205V Veltro and MC.205N Orione, the last being the definitive fighter according to the air ministry’s caccia della serie 5 (series 5 fighter) specification and therefore carrying the name of a constellation. The MC.205V revealed good overall performance and, despite the greater weight of the engine installation and thus a higher wing loading as the wing area was unaltered, still possessed excellent handling characteristics.

Meanwhile Fiat and Reggiane, also working on the basis of their existing radial-engined fighters, had lost little time in completing their prototypes with the DB 605 engine as the G.55 Centauro (centaur) and Re.2005 Sagittario (archer). These two types made their maiden flights in April and May 1942, and the Italian air ministry was therefore able to undertake a comparative evaluation of the three new types, of which the MC.205V was best at low and medium altitudes before its higher wing loading gave it a disadvantage at higher altitudes.

Given the fact that most air combat was taking place below the altitude of 26,245 ft (8000 m) above which the MC.205V began to suffer, the Italian air ministry decided to press ahead with the MC.205V programme and the first MC.205V Serie I Veltro fighter off the production line flew at Varese in September 1942. Like the prototype, this was powered by an imported DB 605 engine, but the next two aircraft introduced the RA.1050 Tifone. The MC.205V entered service in February 1943 with the 1o Stormo Caccia Terrestre (16o Gruppo CT with the 79a, 81a and 88a Squadriglie, and the 17o Gruppo CT with the 71a, 72a and 80a Squadriglie), and deliveries of the MC.205V Serie I were soon being made at the rate of some 18 aircraft per month for a full run of 100 aircraft. The second unit to receive the new type was the 4o Stormo Caccia Terrestre.

There followed the MC.205V Serie III Veltro with its fixed forward-firing armament increased from that inherited from the MC.202, namely two 0.5 in (12.7 mm) Breda-SAFAT machine guns with 400 rounds per gun in the upper part of the forward fuselage and two 0.303 in (7.7 mm) Breda-SAFAT machine guns with 500 rounds per gun in the leading edges of the wing, to the definitive standard of two 0.5 in (12.7 mm) Breda-SAFAT machine guns with 400 rounds per gun in the upper part of the forward fuselage and two imported 20 mm Mauser MG 151/20 cannon with 250 rounds per gun in the leading edges of the wing.

The MC.205V Veltro Serie II was to have been built to basically the Serie III standard by Fiat factory at Turin, but this was destroyed by Allied bombing in December 1942 before any aircraft had been completed.

As MC.205V’s development and production were being completed and started respectively, Macchi was pressing ahead with its definitive development of the MC.202 with the RA.1050 Tifone engine as the MC.205N Orione, the letter suffix in its designation indicating Nuovo (new). This retained an overall similarity to the MC.205V in configuration and structure, but possessed little real commonality with its half-brother as it had a fuselage lengthened by 2 ft 3.25 in (0.69 m) for a greater fineness ratio and a new wing increased in span by 2 ft 5.5 in (0.75 m) for greater area and a higher aspect ratio.

Heavy armament
The MC.205N prototype recorded its maiden flight on 1 November 1942 with an armament of one 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon with 400 rounds in the German type of Motorkanone installation (the weapon being installed between the engine cylinder banks to fire though the hollow propeller shaft) and four 0.5 in (12.7 mm) Breda-SAFAT machine guns with 350 rounds per gun installed as two weapons on the upper part of the forward fuselage and the other two weapons on the sides of the forward fuselage.

After the completion of its manufacturer’s trials, the MC.205N was officially evaluated against the G.55 and Re.2005, of which the former had already been selected for large-scale production. The MC.205N was faster than either of the other two and also possessed a greater climb rate, but despite its enlarged wing was still more heavily loaded and therefore lost its edge at altitudes over 22,965 ft (7000 m). In overall terms the MC.205N was deemed best of the three with the Re.2005 behind it and the G.55 last, and orders were therefore placed for 1,200 examples of the Macchi fighter to be manufactured in equal numbers by Macchi and Breda to a revised standard with an armament of one 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon in the Motorkanone installation, two 0.5 in (12.7 mm) machine guns in the upper part of the forward fuselage, and two more 20 mm MG 121/20 cannon with 250 rounds per gun in the leading edges of the wing.

The second prototype was completed to this standard in May 1943, but by this time Italy’s position had deteriorated sharply and the decision was therefore made to cancel the MC.205N programme and instead order an additional 300 (soon increased to 500) examples of the MC.205V as the MC.205V Serie VI Veltro.

Germany seizes many Veltro fighters
The last MC.205V Serie I fighter was completed in June 1943, the month in which the first MC.205V Serie III machines were delivered. Production continued into September 1943, the month in which Italy secured an armistice with the Allies, but Germany then seized the northern three-quarters of the country not currently held by the Allies, and by this time deliveries had totalled 77 aircraft to operating units that included, as well as the 1o and 4o Stormi Caccia Terrestre, elements of the 3o and 51o Stormi Caccia Terrestre plus the 24o Gruppo Caccia Autonomo and the 310a Squadriglia di Ricognizione Fotografica.

In the aftermath of Italy’s de facto division, with a new Fascist state created in the north to fight alongside the Germans, 37 MC.205V fighters reached Allied-held airfields in the south to form one of the most advanced items of equipment used by the Italian Co-Belligerent Air Force that was soon created to fight alongside the Allies in the Balkans rather than Italy. Most of the surviving MC.205V force remained in the north, however, and the initial complement of 52 aircraft (15 airworthy, 18 being overhauled and 19 under repair) was soon swelled by a resumption of production that finally reached 112 more MC.205V Serie III aircraft by the time further production in World War II was ended by bombing of Macchi’s plant.

Egyptian service
After the end of World War II in May 1945, Italy concentrated the surviving MC.205V fighters as the equipment of the 5o Stormo, with which they remained in service up to 1947, when they were retired in favour of Spitfire Mk IX fighters transferred from the Royal Air Force. This was not the end of the MC.205V story, however, for in June 1948 Egypt placed an order for 24 of the aircraft after the realisation of its air force’s general obsolescence in the fighting that followed the creation of Israel in May 1948 and the concerted Arab effort to extirpate the new state at birth. The Egyptian order was completed by the refurbishment and transfer of eight original MC.205V and 16 converted MC.202 fighters, and a further order of February 1949 for an additional 18 aircraft was met by the sale of three original MC.205V machines and another 15 converted from MC.202 standard. In May 1949 the Egyptians contracted for another 20 aircraft (half original MC.205V aircraft and half conversions from MC.202 standard), but most of the aircraft were severely damaged by Israeli saboteurs before delivery, and as the 1st Arab-Israeli War (1948/49) ended before the aircraft could be repaired the Egyptians cancelled the order as they were more concerned now with the upgrading of their air force with turbojet-powered fighters.

The aircraft that could be repaired were delivered to the Italian air force for use as fighter trainers into the mid-1950s when, like the surviving Egyptian aircraft, they were retired because of the increasing difficulty in providing spares for the RA.1050 Tifone engine.

MC.205V Serie III Veltro

Type: fighter and fighter-bomber

Accommodation: pilot in the enclosed cockpit

Fixed armament: two 0.5 in (12.7 mm) Breda-SAFAT fixed forward-firing machine guns with 400 rounds per gun in the upper part of the forward fuselage with synchronisation equipment to fire through the propeller disc, and two 20 mm MG 151/20 fixed forward-firing cannon with 250 rounds per gun in the leading edges of the wing

Disposable armament: up to 705 lb (320 kg) of disposable stores carried on two hardpoints (both under the wing with each unit rated at 353 lb/160 kg), and generally comprising two 353, 220 or 110 lb (160, 100 or 50 kg) bombs

Equipment: standard communication and navigation equipment, plus a San Giorgio reflector gun sight

Powerplant: one Fiat RA.1050 RC.58 Tifone liquid-cooled inverted V-12 piston engine rated at 1,475 hp (1100 kW) for take-off and 1,355 hp (1010 kW) at 18,700 ft (5700 m)

Internal fuel: 95.7 Imp gal (114.9 US gal 435 litres) including 17.6 Imp gal (21.1 US gal 80 litres) of auxiliary fuel in a fuselage tank

External fuel: up to 44 Imp gal (52.8 US gal 200 litres) in two 22 Imp gal (26.4 US gal 100 litre) drop tanks

Dimensions: span 34 ft 8.5 in (10.58 m) area 180.83 sq ft (16.80 m²) length 29 ft 0.5 in (8.85 m) height 9 ft 11.5 in (3.04 m) with the tail down

Weights: empty 5,691 lb (2581 kg) normal take-off 7,108 lb (3224 kg) maximum take-off 7,514 lb (3408 kg)

Performance: maximum level speed 346.5 kt (399 mph 642 km/h) at 23,620 ft (7200 m) declining to 297 kt (342 mph 550 km/h) at 6,560 ft (2000 m) cruising speed, maximum 270 kt (311 mph 500 km/h) at optimum altitude and economical 229 kt (264 mph 425 km/h) at optimum altitude climb to 16,405 ft (5000 m) in 4 minutes 47 seconds and to 26,245 ft (8000 m) in 9 minutes 9 seconds service ceiling 36,745 ft (11200 m) typical range 561 nm (646 miles 1040 km) with standard fuel


Macchi M.C.205V Veltro (Greyhound) - History

So .
Mustang project. complete, test flown. Check.
Corsair rebuild complete, test flight, Check.

Now the time has come to drag the Easy Tiger Macchi 205 ARF out of it's box. I picked this up at the Toledo show on a whim. "ARF" and retracts. Basic specs are 98"ws, fiberglass fuse, built up wings / stab with tubes, etc. Figure I am going to a few warbird fly ins this year, and this would be an easy quick build. Like to take multiple planes when I travel in case of issues. Hope to take this one to Warbirds over Delaware in July.

I like the Macchi 202, and the 205 is the exact same airframe with a larger engine. The obvious visual distintion are the 2 large round oil coolers on the lower cowl. At first I thought I would kit-bash it into a 202, but further investigation of the engine installation stalled that idea as the engine hangs out so much in the lower area. I figured the 2 round oil coolers actually hid the engine better than a 202 style cooler. I was warned about the color - yuk yellow with strange non scale camo.. figured a repaint would be required, should be easy.

I have a Q 100 laying around.. figured this would be a decent powerplant. All I needed were a few servos.. so home it came. Easy, right? Read on.

First off let me say I generally don't do scale ARFs. I broke this rule as I like kinda weird aircraft that aren't seen everywhere. The Macchi's profile is "decent", but many areas aren't correct. Too bad, with a little more effort, they could have had a very nice semi scale cowl. Oh well, I knew it.

First major issue? The cowl is set up for a 6 1/4" spinner. No spinner is included. What the heck? WHY would they do that? really? Hmm. So, no problem, I made a cowl ring and extended the cowl about 1/2" then tapered it down to a 6" spinner I picked up from Dave Brown. BUT -

Before I could do that - it became very apparent when I tried to fit the cowl onto the fuse.. it didn't even come close to fitting? Really bad. Hmmmm what the heck! So I start grinding.. and grinding. 2 itchy weeks later, I finally get the cowl seated. 2 weeks ! Really guys?? Dammit. What a mess, and the longer I worked on this "ARF" cowl, the more irritated I became. Made a huge mess, and I thought I paid for parts that would basically fit. I could understand a little bit of tweaking required - but 2 weeks??

After that, I mounted the engine.. oh, the plywood on the fuse was not really glued to the firewall? Really? Again I have to do a total rework, adding glue and glass to ensure the firewall is secured to the rest of the airframe. Hmm. more irritation.

OK - finally get the engine mounted.. good! Now, I tweaked the location to the lower side of the cowl. Why? The real aircraft had a droop in the top of the cowl. I tried to simulate this but mounting the engine low in the opening, and using my balsa cowl ring to make up for the difference when I sanded it to match the 6" spinner. Subtle, but I think it helps a little bit. Added some simulated air scoops they left off.

Plan to add some details to the plane before it gets painted.. easy stuff, some hatches, panel lines, etc. Little stuff that should dress it up a bit. Found some sand camo paint in a can - that'll work! Found some camo green as well. OK - test that on the cowl.. looks OK. Also find a good sky blue flat. Really close to a scale color actually.. and it's flat! I was really surprised.

Pics not loading tonight.. will add some when the system is working again.

OK - Now getting the pics to upload.

Basic airframe parts laid out. Notice this is after the cowl was reworked and test paint applied. See the strange base color and onion ring camo? yuk!

The bottom is the same camo - not sure why they did that! You can see the wings were painted by different people and don't match! In fact, the various parts are all painted off the plane and do not match up.

Pictures of the cowl fitting [not] and the engine mounting. Again, you can see the colors I will use to repaint the airframe after completing the basics.

You can see the balsa cowl ring I added to bring the spinner opening down to 6". Will have to glass that onto the cowl. Also, am going to have to add glass to close all the holes uinder the cowl. Had to grind so much material off, in some areas, there is no more material! More work for this "ARF".[:@]

Hmm. looks like varying quality from ET/CYmodel.
Im sure yours will turn out well once finished )

Here are some other pictures of the model.

Thanks for that video link. I didn't realize ET and CY were basically the same company? I had seen the ET video, but enjoyed the one you sent very much. It certainly appears the plane flies very well! Funny, both of the "show" models seem to have the same paint scheme, very different than the one I got.

Anyway, I am documenting what I am finding and dealing with as the plane gets assembled. I plan to try and scale it up a little bit. I wonder where they got that spinner? Nobody makes one over 6" here in the states?? I asked the manufacturer at the Toledo show, they had no offcial recommendations.

I found the 205 and a 202 In Action books - These have a decent amount of info on the plane. I had to learn a bit about the airplane "just because". [8D]
As a side note - the 205 book is MUCH better overall. I never dug into the details before and found it interesting that the 202 /205 shared the same airframe except for the engine and cowl. I am using these to get some graphics made so the plane looks a little bit more correct.

Funny, I found the actual aircraft with the 73 - 7 code. It is actually a 202, not a 205. Doesn't matter, I am going to retain that and build a "semi scale" paint scheme. Every 205 Veltro [ Greyhound ] I have found has the smoke ring como on it. I plan to do the sand with the green blotches like the model you have shown.

When the plane is complete and flown .. if I really like it, I may strip the wings next winter and glass them. At that time, I would change the flaps to the correct split flap configuration as well.

Spoke with Easy Tiger today - seems my canopy has a slight crack issue - and have a replacement coming.

I explained the cowl fit issue - and he was very apologentic - stated the factory had trimmed the cowl too short, causing the cowl fit issue. This is on the sencond batch of imported Macchis. Guess I just got lucky ? Apparently, the first batch didn't have the issue, and he states the next shippment will not have the issue as well. Let's hope so for the next guys!

Nice enough guy for sure, and was willing to talk about the kit and issues well.

I am working on adding some details to the cowl area. Next is starting the servo installations. Hope to test fly by the end of June.

Im pretty sure it is a KS or Krumscheid spinner in the pictures:
https://www.krumscheid-metallwaren.d. op.php?lang=EN

they also make the gas exhaust canisters.

I am going to repaint it - that's the mis-matched color as a test on the cowl. However, before a major redo - I want to fly it.. but need to add a little detail just for fun before the initial paint work,

And a few minor details I have been adding. Mostly concentrating on the cowl area for now.

Why my flying buddies ask ? Cause I am a dork! Even though this is a "way stand off scale plane", I like adding some little detail stuff. I spent a little time researching the airframe as I really didn't kow much about the Macchis really, and then you begin to notice all the flaws from a profile standpoint. I feel compelled to do what I can to spruce it up a bit .. did I mention I am a dork yet? lol[&:]

First, you can see the balsa ring I added to match up with the 6" spinner. I will glass it before painting.

I also added the 2 small air scoops on the top of the cowl. Will be adding some acess panels when I get my In Action book back from the graphics man.

Oil coolers: I don't like the way they look, see how small the opening is? So . . . I opened up the holes to be a bit closer to correct, then added some bondo at the lip to give it some "depth". Then made a small balsa round plug, glued on some drywall sanding material to simulate a radiator, and now I have something that looks a little more correct.

Also added some chart tape to simulate the attachment bands for the round oil coolers.

Now the carb intake - this is basically a desert style intake that was standard on all the Machhi202s and 205s.

The provided part is not too bad from a scale standpoint, but the front opening is not there - sooo - drill a hole, and open that up. Good.

This opening has a flapper valve for high dust takeoff situations - closed during takeoff generally. So - make a balsa disk, and test fit it into the opening.

When this flapper valve is closed, the carb air comes in through a bunch of small openings on the backside of the ridges in the intake - this keeps the sand out, lets the air in. So, add the small holes.. drill, drill, drill . . .

Note - the glass work on this plane is very brittle, be prepared to have small chunks crack off on any drilled holes or cutting. :(

Still doing a little work on the plane, progress is slowing down. Have some pics, but - long day of flying, and I'm too tired to mess with it. Will add a few soon. Still targeting an early July flight.

OK - a 5 month break.. flying season and warbird fly ins had taken over my building desires.

However, now the weather is turning into winter.. it's time to "restart" this project. Of course, have a couple of projects going at once. sigh.

Progress won't be quick. I do have some maintanance to do on the flying planes, then it's focus time for the Macchi

Hi
I'm doing a similar ARF make-over on a new 75" Veltro I picked up on HobbyKing but is most likely made by Picolle Ali in Italy.
I will be doing scale details and paint job, maybe we can compare notes

I guess the CY doesn't have the asymmetrical wings (port wing longer)?

The "instructions" - are a little general in nature. Don't have a scanner, but took a pic of the suggested set ups. In my opimion, these all seem very generic in nature. So - I would set up dual rates for high and low.. test fly it that way and see how you like it set up. The CG is 4 1/2" back from the leading edge - listed in MM of course.

Be aware, this is a short coupled airframe - could be prone to high speed snaps. I flew an IMP version for a club member years ago - and it could get very exciting quickly if you pulled too much elevator! Now, that said, this is a completely different airframe, so lets hope it flies well. I assume you watched the video [link] that was shared previously? Seems to fly fine . let us know how yours flies!

I have wanted to get back to this thing, just haven't had time yet. like many of the projects in my basement.. it's in line.

Hi
I'm doing a similar ARF make-over on a new 75" Veltro I picked up on HobbyKing but is most likely made by Picolle Ali in Italy.
I will be doing scale details and paint job, maybe we can compare notes

I guess the CY doesn't have the asymmetrical wings (port wing longer)?

OMG . . . I actually did a litle work on the Macchi !

Kinda sad - all the servos and parts have been sitting around gathering dust in the shop. So - grabbed a wing and started mounting the servos - after all, this is an ARF for goodness sake! I don't know what is taking me so long to get it going.

Wing hatches are provided for servo mounting. open some 645 boxes.. assemble servo hardware, attach to hatch. They fit "fairley" well. Get the glue out, start to hinge the first flap.. and then the Aileron. Ooops, the ARF harware is too long to make linkages work.. will need a hobby shop run. The weird paint job.. well, the blue is my test spray can for the bottom color. The mustard yellow must go!!

What I did note was this - the wing is actually pretty strong.. The skin is actually a thin ply glued to laser cut ribs and structure. Will need that with the Q 100 power. And more importantly, there are good hinge mopunting blocks in place to hold the hinges well. That is so often not the case on ARFs.

Hmm, wonder if I can push on.

I notice they've done a half-length full airfoil flap instead of longer split flaps like the original.

Sorry for the nerdy detail - the wing looks light and strong, keep on with the build.

With a good paint job it will look the part.

I notice they've done a half-length full airfoil flap instead of longer split flaps like the original.

Sorry for the nerdy detail - the wing looks light and strong, keep on with the build.

With a good paint job it will look the part.

Please keep us posted on your test flights. will watch with some anticipation.

You are right.. the gear concerns me . . . again, IF this things flies as well as the demo video, I may retrofit some better units. The China retracts are gonna have to do for this season.


Macchi C.205

Regarded as one of Italy's best World War II fighter planes, the Macchi C.205, called Veltro (Greyhound), was an upgraded model rather than an entirely new aircraft. The most visible difference between models was a new, larger tail section. The aircraft continued to use the Italian built version of the Daimler Benz 605 engine, but it was upgraded to produce an additional 300 h.p. Minor changes were also made to the aircraft to improve streamlining and lessen drag.

The Macchi C.205 proved itself equal or superior to most Allied fighters of the time. It dominated early World War II fighter aircraft and could hold its own against most of the newest models.

Unfortunately for the Italians, the Macchi C.205 was deployed too late and in too small numbers to make a difference in the war effort.

A total of 262 Macchi C.205 aircraft of all types were manufactured.


RC Macchi C.205

Pictured above is the RC Macchi C.205 from VQ Model built by Robert Stinson. It has a wingspan of 62 in. and a length of 46.5 in. Construction materials used are mostly balsa and lite plywood. VQ Model recommends powering their airplane with .40 to .46 two cycle, .70 four cycle engines, or the electric equivalent. Ready to fly weight is around 6 lbs.

The Hobby King RC Macchi C.205 is an ARF with a fiberglass fuselage and built up balsa and ply wings. Wingspan is 75 in. and length is 66 in. It needs your 20cc to 30cc engine or the equivalent electric power. Weight, ready to fly, is about 15 lbs.


Macchi M.C.205V Veltro (Greyhound) - History

Photograph:

Macchi C.205V MM9377 whilst with No 3 Squadron RAAF in North Africa (Author’s collection)

Country of origin:

Description:

Single-seat fighter and fighter bomber

Power Plant:

One 1,100 kw (1,475 hp) Fiat RA.1050 RC58 Tifone 12-cylinder VEE liquid-cooled engine

Specifications:

History:

The Macchi C.205 Veltro (Greyhound) was the last of the Macchi series of piston engined fighters to be produced by Mario Castoldi and was by any standards an outstanding machine. In 1940 a Daimler Benz DB 601 engine was obtained from Germany and fitted to a C.200 fighter, in this form flying for the first time on 10 August 1940. The DB 601 engine was placed in production by Alfa Romeo as the RA.1000 RC44 and the new type became known as the C.202 Folgore (Lightning), entering service in 1942.

The type entered production, initially with Breda, in late 1940. It had two 7.69 mm (0.303 in) Breda-SAFAT machine guns in the wings and was able to carry up to 160 kg (353 lb) of bombs or fuel tanks. A number of variants were built, one series having two 20 mm Mauser MG 151/20 cannon in underwing fairings. Approximately 1,500 examples were completed, including 392 by Macchi, and they soon achieved superiority over the Hawker Hurricane and Curtiss P-40 series in operation with the allies.

Later a DB 605A engine was installed in a C.202, this new aircraft, known as the C.205 Veltro, flying for the first time on 19 April 1942, entering service early in 1943. The Veltro was of all metal construction with fabric covered control surfaces. The wing mounted machine guns were deleted in favour of two 20-mm cannon and four 12.7 mm (0.5-in) machine guns in the wings. It was a total structural redesign as compared to the C.202. The 205N-2 variant deleted the machine guns in the wings and added two more 20-mm cannon. The DB 605A was licence built by Fiat as the RA.1040 RC.58 and produced 1,100 kw (1,475 hp). One has been restored to airworthiness in Italy, this being a MC.205V (I-MCVE) and is owned by Aermacchi. Two others are held in museums.

One of the past-times of personnel in North Africa was to locate and restore to airworthiness enemy aircraft, particularly fighters. Australian units Nos 3 and 450 Squadrons were involved in this practice, as were British and South African units in the area. At least two, and perhaps more, C.205s were dealt with in this way. One C.205V (serial MM9377) was captured by personnel of No 3 Squadron, RAAF in North Africa, along with a number of other aircraft, this machine being obtained on 24 August 1943 from Catania Main airfield and taken to Agnone in Sicily from where the unit operated from 2 August to 14 September 1943.

All those captured aircraft were allotted the squadron code CV, similar to the units own aircraft at the time, and painted in markings to distinguish them from enemy aircraft. MM9377, the Macchi, was coded CV-V. It is known that Flying Officer A Dawkins flew the aircraft on 7 September 1943, his log-book recording 50 minutes in the aircraft, comments including “lovely to handle – took off at 27+, cruise at .9, 2250 revs, 250 mph.” The aircraft was abandoned after the unit moved on.

The Australian War Memorial holds photos in its collection of captured aircraft. Photo MEA0583 shows a C.205 being serviced by 450 Squadron personell but it is not known if it was flown with the unit. Photo MEA0699 refers to an aircraft captured at Grottaglie in southern Italy during the occupation of 450 Squadron.